The Frost Report Class sketch. It is heavily copyrighted, but you might get it to play at: https://www.tiktok.com/@freeseedfilms/video/7235691483561544986 |
I found it interesting that, according to his son, Michael Parkinson, who died recently, suffered from imposter syndrome. He doubted his abilities as a writer and television interviewer, and feared he was not as good as others. It seems he could be very short-tempered when an appearance or deadline was near. It is difficult to believe this of someone so accomplished. His son thought it came from having grown up in a council house at Cudworth near Barnsley, the son of a coal miner.
I said I could understand this because I was from a northern working-class background myself, and had often felt above my station. Could I have done more with a bit more self-belief? I don’t know, but I have known and worked with those who reached senior university management, one a Vice Chancellor, and seen what self-regarding mediocrity some can be.
One thing certain to get my wife and family worked up, is when I claim to be working-class. “You are not working-class,” they say. “Your father owned a business, and a house and car. You had books at home. You went to a grammar school and became a university academic.”
I argue back that my father did not own a business until I was in my mid-teens, when he took over from his own father. Until then, his father was his employer and he was treated no differently from other employees. He spent three days a week travelling the country villages, often until after seven at night, with paperwork still to do. One day a week, he cycled to work in a boiler suit to maintain and clean the firm’s cars and vans. He worked a five-and-a-half day week, with two weeks annual holiday. We lived in a working-class area and rented a terraced house until I was six. My mother’s father worked in mills. Most of my friends lived in council or terraced housing, and their fathers worked in factories, on the railways, or on the docks. One drove lorries for the council. Another emptied gas meters. I had no sense of being different, except that we rarely mixed with children from professional families. It was a very working-class grammar school I attended, and did not do very well there. I only went to university late. I looked and sounded working-class. How the headmaster sneered in disbelief when I entered my father’s occupation on my leavers’ form as Company Director. Surely, the circumstances and circles in which you grow up, and how they make you behave, determine your class origins.
We are not going to agree. It is a complex subject that has changed over time. To say someone is working-class now might be seen as an insult. It makes than sound like public lavatory attendants or slaughter men. We all like to think of ourselves as middle-class now.
There is also a North-South element. Social and lifestyle changes occured much earlier in the South of England where my wife grew up. There were more professional jobs, and many people travelled into London each day. My own town had few middle class people, and certainly no upper-class. But it depends how you draw the line. I would say my teachers were working-class, as were bank clerks, and shop and office workers.
The English class system: is it possible to cover all angles of such a vast topic? Sociologists would consider unskilled and semi-skilled employment, white-collar and blue-collar jobs, salaried or waged, sources of income, asset ownership, education, lifestyle, interests and so much more. In some recent categorisations, I come out more like the upper classes.
It doesn’t change my view. Me and Parky: two northern working-class grammar school lads made good. Or am I making excuses and playing the victim?
I am working class in that I worked a blue collar job for forty plus years. My mother's side of the family were a bit posh and as people with land were comfortable, but that wasn't my upbringing. However, I live a very middle class lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteI like my partner's Geordie family's attitude. It is not spoken about but they care nothing about class. Class is irrelevant to them, as are the royals. I doubt they even think about class and their place in the hierarchy. There isn't a hierarchy for them. They just live their lives.
The subject of class is always fascinating and if you hear Australia is a classless society, don't believe it.
Many of us live like the well-off used to do because we tend to be wealthier now than the ordinary families of the 1950s and 1960s. So, yes, in that sense class is irrelevant. But during the two decades after the war, it did make a difference in that it limited the occupation you could enter, and hence your life chances. The grammar schools gave clever working-class kids a way out, although it was not always easy for them to get in. I think it is now money rather than class that divides - think premier league footballers and top popular musicians.
DeleteWell it is really all irrelevant isn't it? The clip shows it to be. I have had a revelation this year from my DNA check. It transpires that I do not have any of the background of my adoptive parents, let us say middle-class. My biological mother had 9 children, 3 out of wedlock, I was one of them, and she and her other children lived on a council estate. So who would I have been if she had kept me? Nature and nurture throws up fascinating questions ;)
ReplyDeleteA lot of it is irrelevant now, although there was quite a lot of nasty thing said about the Middletons' lack of nobility when Kate married Prince William. I also think your adoption shows how home background is most important in opening up opportunities.
DeleteProletariat or Common Man is a term I prefer. We all sell our labour for wages. I even barter. I once weeded and rescued a garden for a week in return for a car and a couple of hundred Euros. Parky was a big Manchester United fan like Sir Sir Geoffrey Boycott and myself.
ReplyDeleteWell, I am definitely working class. My parents both came from working class families and my dad, whose parents came from a Yorkshire farming and mining background, never moved on from his unskilled occupation as a storekeeper at BOAC, I was brought up in a council house and mixed with the local kids until I was fortunate enough to be one of the very few in my year to pass the eleven plus exam and go to the Grammar school in nearby Surrey. Although university was never an option for me I managed to find reasonably good jobs and now live a comfortable life in a home of my own. Some may look at me from the outside and think that I am middle class ... (elocution lessons were part of our Grammar school curriculum back then) ... but I know that when I mix with middle class people they instantly recognise me for what I am. It doesn't bother me though. I am happy just the way I am.
ReplyDeleteI think that, like me, you set the bar quite high. I do remember that simply having been through school opened up jobs closed to those who did not go, irrespective of the number of exam passes. Also, a lot of girls left as soon as allowed, and weren't discouraged from it. Very different times.
DeleteWhen I was growing up, father a foundry worker, we kids used to count working class as coming home dirty, middle class as coming home from work as clean as when you went in!
ReplyDeleteI noticed how many high achievers were the daughters and sons of foundry workers, and coal miners. We were usually the first ever to get to the University. Our families didn't quite know how to treat us. We became very foreign to them, lives so different, but I never forgot where I came from.
I found that it also distanced us from our friends. It was social engineering to produce the workforce for all the expanding professions. I remember making a comment about Thomas Hardy in the presence of one of my dad's cousins, who looked at me as if my head was full of rubbish.
DeleteI'm with Andrew really - we are what we make ourselves and I never give a thought to what class I might be. I guess I might have thought a bit about it years ago when I left outdoor work and moved to an office and a desk - there were times when I felt a bit of a clod (mud on my heels), but that was 'culture' more than class. One thing that cured me of that was reading an article on rules of etiquette being the 'in crowd's' way of creating and defining an 'out crowd'. If you need to learn the rules you are on the outside. At that point I reckoned I could easily embrace being outside the BS, and love all the other people who live likewise.
ReplyDeleteBS is exactly what a lot of it is, but I would not want to mix with those who think nothing of spending hundreds in restaurants and hiring private aircraft. Money seems to have displaced class. Interesting to differentiate class from culture. I'll think about that.
DeleteI am certainly working class. My Dad was a painter and my Mum worked part time in a bakery but this didn't detract from me having a lovely childhood. I am lucky to have been born after the war and life got better and better for everyone. Sadly things seem to be in decline now.
ReplyDeleteAll I know is that being working class wasn't that bad. Everyone in my street knew each other and there was a camaraderie amongs us all, sadly this had all gone and where I live now I couldn't tell you the names of any of my neighbours.
Briony
x
We really have lived through the best of times. My experience is much the same. Very few had pretensions and most were accepted as they were. Those who did try to act superior weren't much liked. Yes, people now tend to live in isolated bubbles with little sense of community.
DeleteProletariat or Common Man .
ReplyDeleteBut I am industrious, honest and trustworthy, as Ronnie says in the sketch.
DeleteI grew up in a working class family (today we'd be called "the working poor") and, with the benefit of student aid, worked my way through university to a middle class profession. One thing I had to learn once there was to cultivate a sense of entitlement about such things as money, status and perks -- middle class people don't question their right to such things. I now have an excellent sense of self-serving mediocrity, LOL!
ReplyDeleteWeren't we lucky. I don't think I managed to gain the sense of entitlement, or of innate breeding.
DeleteNo Tasker I don't think you are either making excuses or playing the victim. I think you and I are in a similar position. I am a Lincolnshire lass and my dad was foreman in the lathe shop at Ruston and Hornsby in Lincoln. He never owned his own house and he never learnt to drive. I was the first child in 'the family' to win a scholarship and go to Grammar School. I was in my early thirties - my son was five - before I did an O U degree and went to Teacher Training College. From our start of marriage we always owned our own house - moving up the so called ladder. I ended up as Senior Mistress in a large inner-city Comprehensive and also had considerbale success as a musician. I do consider that by pullig myself up by my own bootlaces I could now be considered Middle class and my son grew up expecting to go to University which he did. But does it really matter? It certainly doesn't up here in Yorkshire - nobody thinks about class unles you are one of the big landowners.
ReplyDeleteMy view is that we are still all in the lower classes despite having professional jobs or living what would once have been privileged lifestyles with houses, cars, warm houses, holidays, and electrical toys. I doubt we would get to make friends with top footballers and pop stars even if we wanted to, or the directory of public companies and so on. Wealth still opens up opportunities for those with average but adequate abilities.
DeleteClass these days is all about money. Who has more, who has the most.
ReplyDeleteI see an uneasy relationship between the old nobility and the new excessively rich. The Harry-Markle marriage seems to illustrate it quite well.
DeleteI cannot comment to this, because I am not from your world.
ReplyDeleteI remember, raising my children, when I was alone, a single parent (a decision made for me, not by me), struggling to make ends meet, I became adept making the best of the situation. I remember, years after the fact, discussing how scary those years were for me. In the middle of it, my youngest (but grown) daughter interrupted the conversation to say, "Wait! We were poor?"
In that moment, I felt like the most successful mother in the world.
I don't think class matters so much, really. What matters is family. Love. Belonging. Security. But, as I say, perhaps it is different there.
Those are indeed the most important things, but I think that in England in the 1950s those things were unrelated to whether one was wealthy or had good connections. Even Royalty can be total shits. But, if one had had those connection or had or been educated privately, it opened opportunities that were not just difficult but completely barred to many. It was nigh impossible to become, say, a lawyer if your father was a factory worker or a coal miner. The grammar schools changed that for the lucky few, but could alienate them from their family and friends.
DeleteI see your point. It happens like that here too.
DeleteI should also have mentioned that is it the way it could affect self-confidence that was most toxic, this is why Parky might have had a sense of imposter syndrome.
DeleteIt’s funny but the counselling certificate I’m doing most of the students in my group and the two groups ahead have this sense of imposter
ReplyDeleteHow odd
Counselling puts you in strange situations. I could imagine having a sense of having nothing to offer. That was my experience at Samaritans until I realised that in fact I did indeed have nothing to offer except ears to listen with and a willingness to help people talk things through. I'm sure you'll be a great counsellor.
DeleteKnowing what class someone belongs to is not straightforward. It can all be rather tangled but I think there is a sense in which a key factor is how someone defines himself/herself in class terms. Where are there natural allegiances? This should not be lightly dismissed.
ReplyDeleteP.S. Did you mean to write "skilled", not "stilled"?
It's complex. I tended to feel that those who had been educated privately or had other privileged backgrounds, especially well-spoken southerners, automatically assumed that I was rubbish because of how I acted and sounded. I experienced it most strongly in the accountancy profession where some of the articled clerks I worked with received sports cars for their 21st birthdays. It is insidious.
DeleteError corrected. Occipital strikes again.